The following interview was conducted by Ciaron way back in the year 2000 whilst he was assembling the Dickies CD-ROM project.

As many of you are probably aware, the CD-ROM eventually morphed into this website, but the content that was collected for it is still available, valid and will continue to adorn these pages.

As always, Ciaron's questions are in bold type, Steve's responses are in normal type.

The Dickies Archives would like to extend a belated thanks to Steve for his time.

How aware were you of the Dickies before you joined?

I was working in a print shop that printed album covers, press packages and play lists for A & M records. I remember when we got the artwork to print the Dickies first album, which got my attention right away. I was working with a drummer at the time who worked in the A & A mailroom and I asked him to get me the album. When I got it a couple of days later, I became an instant fan. It was a white vinyl pressing, which I still have.

From there then, how did you become involved in the band?

By accident really. They were rehearsing for an upcoming show. I had dropped by the rehearsal studio to pick up some of my gear from another project and I ran into Stan in the parking lot. He recognised me from an amplifier repair shop where I had once worked on his Marshall amp, and we were just exchanging greetings. Then I told him I had a white pressing of their first album and he was really surprised by that. Like "reeealy…where did you get that???" As I think it was first released in the UK, so he was curious to know how I came across it. Then he kind of squinted at me and looked me up and down and said something like "yeah, yeah, I think you could do the Dickie thing…yeah, you could be Dickie material". I asked him what he meant and he told me that they needed a guitarist. I asked him when and he said they had a show on Friday. This was on a Tuesday or Wednesday. So I told him I had a couple of their albums and I could probably learn a sets worth of songs by Friday, which I remember he didn't believe. But I came to sound check on Friday and played a couple of songs, and that night at the show they played most of the set as a trio even though they had all of my gear on stage. I figured they weren't impressed, but towards the end of the set they called me up and introduced me as the new guitarist.

Who made up the trio at that show?

That was Leonard, Stan, Laurie and either Jerry Angel or ...damn, I can't remember the name of the other drummer I worked with, I think he was in the early Chilli Peppers for a short while.... (NOTE: Steve is referring to Cliff Martinez - Ciaron). Pretty sure it was Jerry. By trio, I meant only Stan on guitar. That was at the Club Lingerie.

Which guitarist did you replace?

Gee, I never really asked. It might have been Glen. This was shortly after the auto accident where he injured his hand. But, I can't say for sure. There were a lot of changes and hangers on all the time. I was really just there to do my part. I tried as much as possible not to get involved in the little Dickies side-shows. I remember there was another guy hanging around that we auditioned on drums who was pretty bad, but he kept calling me at home and had this big idea that I was going to help him get in the band, and then we were going to take over the band and make them stars again, etc, etc... I had to keep my distance sometimes.

Did you know Chuck Wagon or any of the original members at all?

I was in a band called the Pencils in the late 70s that played a few club dates with the original Dickies. That was my only contact with them. They were pretty cocky, because they were big stars in the UK. Stuff like making sure that they were the only band that got paid for the gig and how it was worth it because of the exposure other bands got from being blessed with the opportunity to play a Dickies gig. I remember thinking that they were pretty full of themselves considering their pretty average playing ability. After I was in the band for a while we played a college show and Laurie wasn't available. The only one Stan could get was the original guy. It was pretty sad. He didn't have a car or an amp and was working at a 7-11. Very mild mannered and dishevelled looking. But when he got on stage, he had on shades and a Dickie, and his all of a sudden had this "don't fuck with me" attitude. I was a bit amused by that. After the show the attitude was all gone. You know, turned back into a pumpkin after midnight. I felt bad for the guy.

What are your fondest memories of your time with the band?

There was a period where the band was like a machine. I had worked with Laurie Buhne (bass) and Jerry Angel (drums) in other projects and we played well together. We did a short tour on the East Coast, CBGB's and the Ritz in New York, and about a dozen other shows between New Hampshire and Virginia. About the third or fourth show into the tour the band started to come together like a Swiss watch - pure adrenaline. We went to a bar in New York on an off night for a few drinks and some girl dropped her drink and got all tongue-tied when she found out who we were. Like we were the Beatles or something. That was at the peak of my time as a Dickie.

Were Jerry and Laurie the only rhythm section you played with? I think Glen mentioned that he stood in on bass while Laurie took some time out.

Somewhere, I have a picture from a gig with me and Glen together. He was playing bass while Laurie was in Arizona doing a Fear gig. Why do I remember all of this trivia but I can't tell you what I had for breakfast? There were also some shows with the other drummer whose name I still can't think of.

Why did you leave the band?

I was pretty much encouraged to leave actually. I was full of energy and ideas and maybe a bit full of myself. But I saw myself as fresh blood for the band and was always trying to arrange more rehearsals, radio interviews and writing some new songs. I pretty much drove Stan and Leonard nuts. By that time the band was in a real rut, Jerry, Laurie and I were pretty much treated like expendable sidemen. I told Stan I had other projects going on and I needed to know the Dickies show schedule a couple of weeks in advance. A week later at the end of a show he told me the band had booked a small tour to start 2 days later. I told him I hoped they have a good time and that was it.

Who replaced you, was it Enoch or Glen?

From what I heard through the grapevine, the guy they got right after me was Stan's pot dealer. I don't know his name and your reference to Enoch is the first I've heard of him. When I left, I was busy with other things and didn't really look back.

Are you still in touch with any of the guys? If not when was the last time you saw any of them?

No. I hear about them through the grapevine, but we live in different worlds these days. They opened for Offspring recently and those guys are big Dickies fans, so I heard about the shows.

Have you followed the band's career since your departure?

No, it has really been all about Stan and Leonard for a long time, so I don't really think about them as a band anymore.

How do think the Dickies now compares to back then when you were a part of the band?

There's no way to say this without sounding like a dick, but I don't think they ever had as good a quality of musicianship as when Jerry, Laurie and I were there. But I think the original band was the most innovative and off the wall. That's what attracted me to them in the first place. By the late eighties I think they were mostly recycling and living on past glory.

Do you have a favourite track / album?

The first album was my favourite musically. Mental ward was my all time favourite song. Walk like an egg was a lot of fun to play live. The cover tunes were always a blast to play live. Especially with Laurie who was an amazingly energetic musician because we would play those songs as fast as humanly possible and still get all of the original parts right, like Communication Breakdown. I would listen to the Zep version over and over again and practice all the riffs then at shows try to keep it all original right down to the pick attack on the strings, which was a real challenge at better than twice the original speed.

How did the band go about choosing their cover material. Was it a case of playing it at 45 rpm and seeing how good it sounded!?

Oh, I don't know. I just think somebody heard something on the radio and decided to run with it. Once in a while Leonard would come to rehearsal (when he felt like rehearsing, which was not often) with an idea for an arrangement and we worked on it until it came together. Everybody would just throw in little bits. Some worked some didn't.

Would I be right in thinking that you've only actually appeared on vinyl with the Dickies on the 'We Aren't The World' album? Were you ever involved with any 'proper' recording sessions with the band, maybe stuff that wasn't released?

'We Aren't' was the first, which was re-mixed board mixes from live shows. It was an awful record, only released on cassette. Ugh. The studio stuff I worked on was supposed to be Second Coming. When I left, I didn't get paid a lot of money I was owed so I told them they would have to pay me or strip my guitar tracks from the Second Coming master. I don't know how much attention they paid to that, and I never heard the record. Oh, well...

Do you think that they deserve more commercial success than they have, and do you think that the much talked of 'drug problem' hampered the band's progress?

The Dickies were their own worst enemy and ultimately if drugs are involved, there are only 2 choices: lose the drugs or lose the career. They got a lot of money thrown at them and right from the start they got side-tracked by all of the hangers on and blood suckers who live to take advantage of nubies with stars in their eyes. I think they became suspicious of everyone around them after that, and missed a lot of opportunities to get back on track because of it. Stan and Leonard are the anchor and soul of the Dickies. With both of them being so fixated on their own problems and everyone else being treated as outsiders, there wasn't much anyone could do but wait it out and hope they could land on their feet. Now they have to sit on the sidelines and watch bands like Green Day, Offspring and Rancid carry the torch.

Would you say then that it's more a case of the band always seeing the tunnel at the end of the light?

I think Stan and Leonard had a hard time getting over the gap between what they could get and what they thought they deserved. There were ill-conceived deals made and substandard material released - case in point We Aren't The World. If the band had taken itself more seriously and worked really hard, at the time of Second Coming, perhaps more and better opportunities could have flowed from that. I can't really speak for Jerry and Laurie, but I felt that those guys had a real passion and ability to do good work. And for my part we were in a good studio with a good engineer and I was ready to work as long and as hard as necessary to make a screaming record. That can't happen in a band that isn't unified in purpose - no matter how much potential exists. The vision wasn't there.

Glen has also said that he thinks the band would've got a lot further than it has if they received more radio airplay, but the stations can't seem to get any further than the band's 'punk' image. Do you still see the Dickies as 'punk' band?

When we did big shows with other major punk acts on the bill, we always stood apart from everyone else musically and visually. I always saw the Dickies as beyond the punk label, more of a twisted Cheap Trick, with great potential. It takes two to tango, and radio was willing, but needed co-operation from the band. KROQ wanted to do an interview at 8am. Stan and Leonard weren't too interested, but I thought the timing was good. Shit, I listened to that station all the time in the early morning, and I appreciated bands that did interviews in that time slot. So, I made all the arrangements and told Stan and Leonard that I would call them in the morning to wake them up and pick them up to go to KROQ. Agreed. The next morning I called and they both picked up their phones and when they realized that I was going to make them follow through, they both hung up on me and then took their phones off the hook. Totally blew off the interview. That's not radios fault. Media is hungry for good shit and there is a lot of it out there. It isn't the job of record and radio people boot an artist in the ass. Artists have to accept that. I tried to make it my job and got nothing but resistance.
The newer bands today that usurped the Dickies legacy, work their asses off and do the legwork necessary to be successful. I know because I work with a lot of new artists.

Leonard once mentioned in an interview a while back that one day they would have a 'Dickie alumni brunch' and get everyone back together. Would you go?

I can just see it now. All of the Dickies' past hired guns sucking up to Leonard, "we were the best Dickies...no we were...food fight!!!" Yeah, I'd go just to see Leonard whip out Stuart one more time.

Would you ever consider re-joining the band if you were asked?

Who are the Dickies now really? What era of the Dickies best represents what the band was capable of and could be realized now? What would be the point of my involvement if it didn't include the chemistry that made it happen for me in the first place? These are important questions that need to be asked. Also, I think Stan and Leonard would find me just as ambitious and relentless now as I was then, maybe even more so. Man, that's a pretty tall order...

What are you up to now?

In '89, I founded VHT amplification. The company is now in its 11th year producing the worlds best guitar amplifiers. I also have a band called Burn Unit, a power trio that I have been working on for a couple of years in between my responsibilities running VHT. We've been threatening to make a public appearance soon.

Any final messages for the all the people out there in Dickie-land?

Thanks for still caring. I'm sure Stan and Leonard really appreciate that. Don't waste your life on drugs. There's no future in it. Hey Laurie, if you're out there, give me a call. And will the person who relieved me of my Les Paul Goldtop at a Dickies show in 84-85, please tell me where it is? I still have a record of the serial number and my SS number is engraved in the body under the pickups.